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Post by albinoxeno on Sept 2, 2014 22:07:06 GMT
hello hive, have not used this place for quite some time, glad to see it's still going. i left the hobby some time ago during 5th edition, around the time the tervigon kit was released, sold all my armies but the nids boxed them away.
well the nids have pulled me back and are out of storage. it's great to see we got some new units and awesome looking models, though i have to say i'm a little intimidated by the new codex cost and the idea of learning the 7th edition rules :/
i have a tonne of questions for anyone who has the time to answer:
- what has changed since 5th edition?
- how has our new codex been to us?
- which units are the mainstay now & which suck?
- what's with all the massive models now? can forgeworld stuff be used in 40k or something?
- how is 7th edition as a whole and how does it treat us?
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Post by javaman21011 on Sept 2, 2014 22:17:09 GMT
I'll give it a shot!
- what has changed since 5th edition?
Well the sad thing is not much has changed, and most things either got a sideways buff or a nerf. The Tervigon is more expensive, backlash is 12" and it doesn't confer as many buffs to the termagaunts it spawns. Carnifexes got a price decrease so they're back to being useful. Instinctive Behavior got worse, but its manageable. The Venomthrope/Malanthrope are must-haves due to the Shrouded power now giving us all extra +2 cover saves. Warriors weren't fixed, nor were genestealers. Mawlocs are interesting now with a cool Blast template used when they arrive from deepstrike. The Hive Crone is superior to the Harpy for most people, the Exocrine is great and the Formations we can bring are a must, especially the Living Artillery one.
- how has our new codex been to us?
I would say the 6th ed codex is ok, not much was buffed and many favorite models are overpriced or still useless (the poor poor Pyrovore)
- which units are the mainstay now & which suck?
I would say Flying Hive Tyrants with twin-linked devourers, Exocrine (used in the formation), Biovore, Carnifexes and a flavoring of warriors to provide synapse. Venomthrope/Malanthrope are musts, and Zoanthropes/Hive guard are still ok. Avoid Trygons, Raveners and Pyrovores. Gargoyles/gaunts are good screening units
- what's with all the massive models now? can forgeworld stuff be used in 40k or something?
Yes FW, super heavies and fortications are 40k proper. They basically combined 40k with Escalation and Lords of War.
- how is 7th edition as a whole and how does it treat us?
7th gave is blessings and annoyances. Our flyers are more durable now because 7th says that Grounding checks must be taken only on unsaved wounds, so marker lights cannot ground our tyrants. Meanwhile there's only ONE groudning check after all the shooting is done. So Flyrants and Crones got better that way. Sadly vector strike got nerfed to only 1 hit against ground targets and d3 hits against other flyers/flying monstrous creatures. Smash got nerfed to only 1 hit. Shrouded remains the best rule imo since we can bring cheap mobile cover saves.
Also the new Psychic phase is interesting, since a lot of our guys are psykers we can really mess with other people's charges, but on the flip side so can they... its a lot harder to manifest powers and harder still to deny them. Shadow in the Warp is mostly useless now and we're restricted to only our codex powers, so no more flying hive tyrants with Biomancy.
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Post by asmodas on Sept 2, 2014 22:19:11 GMT
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Post by nameless on Sept 2, 2014 22:26:15 GMT
what has changed since 5th edition?
A lot. It's hard to explain them all. Basically:
-Flying monstrous creatures need 6s to be hit.
-Tanks can only die from a 7 on the damage dice (+1 for ap2, +2 for ap1, +1 for open topped)
-There is a new way to play where objective can score every turn (Maelstrom)
-Everything scores; troops just cancel out something that scores and takes it for itself
-You can take super heavies and gargantuan creatures in normal 40k (lord of war)
how has our new codex been to us?
-Poorly
-We only have a few effective builds
which units are the mainstay now & which suck?
-Flying Hive Tyrands (wings + 2x TL Brain Leech Devourers +/- Electroshock Grubs)
-Carnifex (2 x TL Brain Leech Devourers)
-Malanthrope [Forgeworld]
-Biovores & Exocrine [Better when taking a dataslate]
-Gargoyles (Adrenal Glands or Toxic sacs if you know you're going against lots of MCs)
-Crone & Acid Spray Tyrannofex(maybe)
Stay away from: Genestealers, Tyranid Prime, Old One Eye, Haruspex, Lictors, Pyrovores, Hormagaunts, Raveners, Trygons, Shrikes
what's with all the massive models now? can forgeworld stuff be used in 40k or something?
-Forgeworld could always be used in 40k
-The massive models are allowed as a Lord of War (not all of them) but all of ours are (4 total)
how is 7th edition as a whole and how does it treat us?
-We're not the worst, is about the best that I can say.
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Post by Kwodd on Sept 3, 2014 1:47:29 GMT
Welcome back, we aren't at the top of the heap but we are still the most fun to play.
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Post by seethe on Sept 3, 2014 1:53:31 GMT
Everyone has covered most of the big changes, but I just want to point out that you are going to have to shift how you play your nids to a more shooting style. 7th edition highly favors shooting (overwatch) and the inability to run and assault with the changes to fleet. It is a lot harder to get our Nids into close combat now. I would peruse the forums a bit, read up on the tactica, and do your best to absorb the rules from our new codex and 7th edition. Best thing will be to start getting a few games in, but don't get discouraged by your results. You are going to run into some seriously strong combinations of units and allies from the other races, but the Nids are no push over by any means. Plus we still hold the title of best looking bugs in the galaxy, and even the terrible rules wise Haruspex can at least look fantastic from the sidelines.
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Post by javaman21011 on Sept 3, 2014 4:46:37 GMT
Never thought of that... you can shoot and assault, but not run and assault? How does that make any sense :\
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Post by gigasnail on Sept 3, 2014 6:40:30 GMT
don't get me started.
oh, and welcome back!
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Post by albinoxeno on Sept 3, 2014 8:16:12 GMT
Thanks all for the replies. Well that doesn't paint an overly pleasant picture for the gaming side of the hobby. May just stick to casual/fluffy games if I ever get any :/
I used to primarily enjoy the melee aspect of nids. Hormagaunts, raveners, cc warriors, cc fexen and trygons being some of my favourites. So these changes don't sound great. I like the new exocrine model so may pick one up eventually, but the biovore model is awful, and not plastic -.-
Are all of my old favourites redundant now?
I have 6 carnifexen in total, 5 built up for melee and one a massive restoration project. Would it be worth keeping them as is or removing a set of talons for guns?
I picked up a crone the other day as I like the model, is she any good?
Have to say the only saving grace rules wise so far are that flyrants are still good (I have 2) and that I may be able to use my malanthrope and barbed and scythed hamster more.
Sent from my iPhone using Some kind of sorcery
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Post by asmodas on Sept 3, 2014 18:18:39 GMT
The Crone is a very good model, I think you will be pleased with its performance (do not build at as a Harpy - Crone is better). Close Combat is do-able if well-supported with guns. CC Fexes may not be the best, and CC warriors are not great either, but things like Shrikes, Raveners and Hormagaunts are still plenty playable at the friendly level. I still like running melee monsters, but typically try to make them dual role - just picked up 20 gargoyles the other day, which I am happily assembling in batches. They make a fine fast threat/assault tarpit unit, one of the best in the new codex.
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Post by Yautja on Sept 3, 2014 18:56:26 GMT
If you really love CC fexes, at least give them 1 set of Devourers as a compromise.
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Post by nameless on Sept 3, 2014 19:10:47 GMT
I used to primarily enjoy the melee aspect of nids. Hormagaunts, raveners, cc warriors, cc fexen and trygons being some of my favourites. So these changes don't sound great. I like the new exocrine model so may pick one up eventually, but the biovore model is awful, and not plastic -.- An interesting list could be the following: Hive Tyrant (Reaper + AG + OA) + 3 Guard (AG) Rippers (DS) Rippers (DS) Dimachaeron Dimachaeron Dimachaeron 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 1 Carnifex (AG + CC) @1850 No a bit of shooting, but you've got some tough melee only targets there. Could consider adding in Swarmlord and/or Old One Eye but neither can get fleet. You also may not need all of those Crushing claws. |
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Post by albinoxeno on Sept 3, 2014 20:38:48 GMT
The Crone is a very good model, I think you will be pleased with its performance (do not build at as a Harpy - Crone is better). Close Combat is do-able if well-supported with guns. CC Fexes may not be the best, and CC warriors are not great either, but things like Shrikes, Raveners and Hormagaunts are still plenty playable at the friendly level. I still like running melee monsters, but typically try to make them dual role - just picked up 20 gargoyles the other day, which I am happily assembling in batches. They make a fine fast threat/assault tarpit unit, one of the best in the new codex. already assembled the beast as a crone in excitement earlier this week. without knowing the rules i went with crone (with the harpy back spikes)as it looks to act like a dragon, swooping down and breathing fire/acid, with the added spines/scythes to slash with. glad for once the better looking option plays better too  i know i defiantly need more gargoles, my battered 29 won't cut by the looks of the larger lists on here. good to here there is hope for some of my favourite CC nids. guessing by missing them out that trygons and stealers are no good anymore? :/ If you really love CC fexes, at least give them 1 set of Devourers as a compromise. i've started trying to remove the glued talons to make room for guns as i'm ok with the compromise as long as the model looks good. reckon i'll try make some custom beefed up devourers and then keep a set of talons for looks and try proxy as dual twin links via the beefed up guns. i already did this in 5th for a flyrant, his devourers look like massive angry strawberry's. I used to primarily enjoy the melee aspect of nids. Hormagaunts, raveners, cc warriors, cc fexen and trygons being some of my favourites. So these changes don't sound great. I like the new exocrine model so may pick one up eventually, but the biovore model is awful, and not plastic -.- An interesting list could be the following: Hive Tyrant (Reaper + AG + OA) + 3 Guard (AG) Rippers (DS) Rippers (DS) Dimachaeron Dimachaeron Dimachaeron 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 1 Carnifex (AG + CC) @1850 No a bit of shooting, but you've got some tough melee only targets there. Could consider adding in Swarmlord and/or Old One Eye but neither can get fleet. You also may not need all of those Crushing claws. the dimacheon model looks great to me, i think i'll aim for that to be my eventual center piece. glad forgeworld gave us something, though i'm a little disappointed it wasn't more in that time frame. don't think i'll be getting three however! |
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Post by Yautja on Sept 3, 2014 21:48:07 GMT
I used to primarily enjoy the melee aspect of nids. Hormagaunts, raveners, cc warriors, cc fexen and trygons being some of my favourites. So these changes don't sound great. I like the new exocrine model so may pick one up eventually, but the biovore model is awful, and not plastic -.- An interesting list could be the following: Hive Tyrant (Reaper + AG + OA) + 3 Guard (AG) Rippers (DS) Rippers (DS) Dimachaeron Dimachaeron Dimachaeron 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 1 Carnifex (AG + CC) @1850 No a bit of shooting, but you've got some tough melee only targets there. Could consider adding in Swarmlord and/or Old One Eye but neither can get fleet. You also may not need all of those Crushing claws. Reaper and OA are way too expensive! That's 60p! Maw Claws gives Preferred Enemy and Rending for just 10p. That 50p difference is an extra Zoanthrope Synapse satellite or something... |
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Post by nameless on Sept 3, 2014 22:33:23 GMT
An interesting list could be the following: Hive Tyrant (Reaper + AG + OA) + 3 Guard (AG) Rippers (DS) Rippers (DS) Dimachaeron Dimachaeron Dimachaeron 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 2 Carnifex (AG + CC) 1 Carnifex (AG + CC) @1850 No a bit of shooting, but you've got some tough melee only targets there. Could consider adding in Swarmlord and/or Old One Eye but neither can get fleet. You also may not need all of those Crushing claws. Reaper and OA are way too expensive! That's 60p! Maw Claws gives Preferred Enemy and Rending for just 10p. That 50p difference is an extra Zoanthrope Synapse satellite or something... If you're building a list that has melee carnifexes in it, you're not really concerned about point efficiency. |
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