Winning with uncompetitive nids

[stev]

Im aware that there are certain models in our codex which are far supperior, cost effective, competitive choices I.e. flying tyrants, zoanthropes, the flying monsters etc. My problem is I started collectong nids because I liked the idea of a seeming endless swarm of alien beasts rushing forwards to rip their enemies limb from limb. It was the loik of lictors, raveners, stealers, warriors and hormies that did it for me.

Now I realise (despite what the fluff says) that these models and this style of play isnt an effective way to use our codex. Despite this do I stand any chance of running a list like this and not being tabled?

I was thinking something like

Hq
Tyranid prime

Troops
Warriors/rippers
Stealers

Elites
Lictors

Fastll
Raveners

Then from the data slates...
The endless swarm formation
The warrior one with increased synapse range

The idea being send the 6 endless swarm broods fowards fast from the start. I know its not a good idea to sacrafice scoring troops like that but im counting on enough getting recycled that they can come back on a claim objectives near my board edge.
All the warriors should give more than enough synapse to keep everything doing what I want and hopefully the 6 endless swarm broods plus stealers, lictors and raveners all in his face turn 1 or 2 will be too much for my opponent to cope with and something should make it to close combat and start habing fun?

I know im giving myself a deliberate handicap but I hope it might still work. Even I dont win I think it would be fun to play.

Sorry I dont have a very exact list...ill check the codex later and post something more precise.

So what do u think?

[smellofwetdog]

Since you said you know you'll be handicapping yourself I won't go into all the things you already know you'll need instead of a ton of gribblies. However you should throw some rending claws on what gribblies you can and maybe some toxin sacs on some hormagaunts since that will be really the only hard hitting option you have to deal with armor or high toughness MCs and the like.
Objective grabbing it's certainly possible to force a win just on obsec units alone.
In VP games you're going to get shellacked just trying to get to objectives.
You're basically setting the game to the insane difficulty here, best of luck! Let us know how it turns out, could be a fun game once or twice at the very least.

[omnipotence]

I actually won against my toughest opponent bringing a 163 model swarm list once, that was even before we had the endless swarm formation. It does well in objective games because many players just don't have the volume of fire they need to put that many bodies down in 5-6 turns. If the game runs to 7 you'll definitely be feeling it though. If your going to run a list like that understand you'll be killing targets of opportunity only, that kind of army is ridiculously easy to play against, the obvious strategy being back up and shoot. This is your biggest advantage actually, as long as your opponent wants to avoid your horde he's not grabbing up the objectives.

You may want to throw in a venomthrope or two so that your swarm survives longer, cover saves can be a lifesaver to gaunts. I'd say your warriors are strong objective holders here while the gaunts should be zoning the enemy out of strategic positions. Careful about large gaunt blobs getting funneled, some terrain can make gaunts just suck in big groups.

[Yautja]

I'd recommend a Trygon (Prime?) to anyone playing Endless Swarm.

[krimson]

^^^ trygon prime and endless swarm is amazing

[coredump]

I would only use the trygon if running multiple Endless Swarm detachments. But that is based on theory, not experience.

There is a theory to give the endless swarm models lots of upgrades, because you will be 'getting them back' for free. So if you buy TS/AG for 2 broods, you will actually get 3 broods with the upgrade. Similar idea for devourers... (especially if you go with the trygon move.

You may want to look at the formations from the first RisingL, since they are about stealers and lictors.

[lockef]

I think it is totally possible. I once saw a tournament player at my local store do really well with the old dex just flood the board with so many models the enemy couldn't move. It actually screwed over his opponents fliers as they had to keep flying off the board but I think there are a few things to consider.

Like others said a Trygon prime is great because of its tunnel and a venomthrope would increase survivability but I don't think it's necessary. What I would consider though is to put venom cannons on your warriors that are with primes for some str 6 shooting at BS 4 and possibly grabbing the miasma cannon on a prime for a decent gun with good range.

Also, I love raveners from a fluff and model perspective but genestealers are just better in almost any case, except charging through cover. But for the same points you get more attacks, at higher weapon skill and initiative. Also, sine they can infiltrate 18 inches away, the fact raveners are faster are irrelevant. I love raveners but since you've already considering stealers, I would take them over raveners.

Good luck!

[stev]

Thanks for all the input guys...lots of interesting ideas.

Vehicles are gonna be tough to crack...but I guess if I take a trygon he can help with that and the recycled swarms can use his tunnel. I was swinging between including a trygon or tervigon....from what everyone has said the trygon seems to have more utility. Maybe even make him a prime to help with synapse up the field?

Genestealers better tham raveners? I guess I could squeeze in one of the stealer formations. Id love enough lictors to do one of those but alas I only have 2.

So I working out points atm but heres what I got....

Hq
Tyranid prime
-bone swords, deathspitter, ag, ts

Elites
Lictors (1 or 2)
Venomthrope

Troops
2x Ripper swarms

Heavy
Trygon Prime
-as, ts

Endless Swarm
3 Warriors
-rending claws, ag (to run up with hormagaunts to keep synapse)

3x hormie broods (2 with just ts, one with ts&ag)

3x termies (about 1/3 of each brood with deverours)

Synaptic Whatever its called
3 Warriors
-boneswords, deathspitters

3 Warriors
-deathspitters, vc

3 warriors
-deathspitters, vc

Broodlord hunting pack

5 stealers + broodlord
-talons&claws, ts (not sure bout broodlord equipment)

5 stealers
-talons&claws , ts

5 stealers
-claws

If I make each of the gaunt broids about 13 or 14 models I can get that to about 2000 points.

Thoughts?

[N.I.B.]

do I stand any chance of running a list like this and not being tabled?

Dude, you need to get out and play in your local meta. Random internetters on the other side of the planet can't really tell what you can win with in your area. Are you playing tournaments or pickup games, friendly games?

I do feel you, when I got into 40K I wanted to build my army around 20 Warriors, lol. Against most armies you can have one or two sub-par units and still get the W, but building your whole army around T4 units and Genestealers will make most matchups hard.

Maelstrom missions kind of throws a monkey wrench in the old paradigm in that way that you can to a greater degree win by playing to the mission objectives, provided you have a mobile army with strong synapse.

Raveners are better than Genestealers imo, partly due to mobility (grabbing tactical objectives) and partly due to messing with target priority.

[gauntlet]

Have you taken into account, Formations do not have Objective Secured?

[gauntlet]

My untested list takes into account that Formations are not Objective Secured

CAD:
- Tyranid Prime
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 2 Lictors
- 2 Zoanthropes
- 1 Venomthrope
- 4 Raveners+rending
- 3 Shrikes with Boneswords
- Trygon Prime

2nd Detachment
- Endless Swarm

about 1900 points.

What should the enemy target first?
Target Synapse which are vicious but only necessary to control the Endless Swarm?
Target the outflanking Objective Securing Genestealer units which can also provide synapse?
Target the infuriating Endless Swarm, Lictors and Raveners?

[coredump]

With that list, I would take advantage of targets of opportunity. the stealers need to come on and wait around a turn, so I can shoot them when they show up.

The raveners and shrikes are coming to me, so shoot those whenever they get close or look threatening. (or any S8+ guns)

You do not have time to cast dominion before checking for IB, so if you ever have gaunts with only 1 synapse unit, I can target that if appropriate.

Its an interesting list, with a lot of bodies...but no shooting and almost all 5+/6+ armor saves. For the most part, I would shoot whatever was easiest to kill that turn...

[Yautja]

I'm totally with the fluffy lists but with a competitive mentality theme, as contradictory as that sounds. Heck, I plan on playing with the Deathleaper Formation when I have the models and nobody has had anything positive to say about that one.

[voidwraith]

Jul 28, 2014 12:22:44 GMT gauntlet said:

My untested list takes into account that Formations are not Objective Secured

CAD:
- Tyranid Prime
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 5 Genestealers + Broodlord
- 2 Lictors
- 2 Zoanthropes
- 1 Venomthrope
- 4 Raveners+rending
- 3 Shrikes with Boneswords
- Trygon Prime

2nd Detachment
- Endless Swarm

about 1900 points.

What should the enemy target first?
Target Synapse which are vicious but only necessary to control the Endless Swarm?
Target the outflanking Objective Securing Genestealer units which can also provide synapse?
Target the infuriating Endless Swarm, Lictors and Raveners?

It'd be a harder decision if the Genestealers were infiltrated into his face turn 1 rather than outflanking (and sitting around for a round) on turn 2 or 3 (or 4 if you're unlucky).

I stopped outflanking BEFORE assault from reserves was taken away...now...never considered.

[Yautja]

Yeah outflanking is only good for shooting units I'd say, like a massive brood of DevGaunts.