Overall Meta's for 7th Edition Bugs?

[frozenhamster86]

In each persons opinion what things do you think is a must in almost every list? Or a must against certain armies so far? I would like to focus this thread on just Tyranid strengths, but if weaknesses are taken into account please include a way to offset them with a strength of another model or something of the like. Thanks.

"I would much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent person, to the thoughtless adoration of the masses." - Johannes Kepler

[coredump]

Well... assuming you are trying to be fairly competitive...

2 flyrants
1 crone
venom
"enough" synapse
plenty of Heavy support.
I think at least 1 devilfex is a no brainer....
A decent tarpit unit is not quite a 'must', but a good idea.

[frozenhamster86]

What about heavy weapons on a Carnifex? HVC, Stranglethorn, etc?

"I would much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent person, to the thoughtless adoration of the masses." - Johannes Kepler

[Deleted]

Dual brainleech devouerers all the way on a fex if you take one(that's the case on most of our MC's that can take these). High end competitive meta for nids is very flying MC heavy.

[Hive Bahamut]

Does it fly? Take it. No? Give it Devourers.

Take 'Thropes.

[omnipotence]

Our heavy support all does good work but ive been finding biovore and exocrine indespensible lately.

[Moontyranid]

nids in 1 word this edition SPAM

[nubitron9000]

I've been having a lot of success with outflanking 30 gant squads (20 dev/10 FB) with a Prime (BS/LW and Scy Tal) attached. Of course this requires HT with the hive commander upgrade...They basically automatically destroy one non-vehicle unit, soak up a vast majority of the next turns firepower, and then whatever remaining force can still cause issues with either shooting or charging and swamping another unit. I'll often break the prime away and get him in close combat with a separate squad. I had a game earlier this week where he wiped out a full squad of SM with no issue.

[Deleted]

You'll see besides a lot of flyer spam the popular creatures in the HS slot are probably mostly exocrines and biovores. Biovores as AWESOME at obliterating xenos armies' troops. Str 4, ap:4 just dices fire warriors and the like, AND forces pinning checks. They're so inexpensive points-wise it's hard to not validate taking them.

The exocrine is also an excellent choice. It's a tyranid plasma weapon without the gets hot special rule, and with the option of the blast or 6 shots it can put a hurt on any enemy, even terminators(note, if you take the "living artillery" formation, both of these units get MUCH better imo). Though just be aware, statistically in most circumstances a carnifex with dual brainleech devourers will perform better(the exception to this circumstance largely being something with a good save like terminators sitting out in the open). Coredump did a statistical breakdown a while back...it's somewhere on the board.

These guys generally just supplement flyer spam though.

[smellofwetdog]

Jul 11, 2014 5:30:04 GMT frozenhamster86 said:

What about heavy weapons on a Carnifex? HVC, Stranglethorn, etc?

"I would much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent person, to the thoughtless adoration of the masses." - Johannes Kepler

Unfortunately due to inadequately assigning AP values and/or a higher rate of fire to our heavy weapons, they're all outshone by the brainleech devourer. ROF used to be based on your base attacks characteristic, and weapon str was based on your base str value. Venom Cannons were more widely used then, still didn't have good AP but literally twice or more the rate of fire made up for that. Also Str 8 Barbed stranglers heh. That was also in a different 40k era with different targets and enemies. Now there's no reason to take anything with 1 shot that isn't AP2 or better.

[jason]

My current favorites: Flyrants (2xDevs), Hive Crones, Exocrines, Venomthropes, Biovores, Zoanthropes, LARGE units of Termagants, anything with Haywire rule (like thorax e-shock).

[Deleted]

Also don't get me wrong, I keep waving flyer spam as the meta for nids in this thread but that isn't to say tactics like the outflanking 30 squad of gaunts is bad. I use that fairly regularly(I like to stick a prime in there as my warlord to give them synapse and that way my warlord has 30 wounds of meat shield/look out sir rolls).

Flyer spam is the backbone(and heart, and lungs) of most meta competitive lists for tyranids (Imo) but a list of nothing but flyers won't be doing too great on babysitting an objective.

For HQ's The devil-flyrant is almost a must. Wings, 2 sets of twin linked brainleech devourers, and it's a flyer(and you can give it hive commander for those outflanking gaunts if you want). This beast while only a T6 4W 3+ save model gets the defensive boon of being a flyer which is significant. Besides that it can pivot upto 90 degrees, move upto 24 inches, and then still has an 18" threat range in every direction(MC's have a 360 degree firing arc) with TWELVE TWIN LINKED str 6 shots(no AP, but TWELVE). That's a monstrous creature killer. Also can glance to death light armor. And even if you jink(aka next turn you can only use snap shots) you're still statistically expected to get about 2 hits before twin linked, 3-4 after twin linked. Oh and he's forward moving synapse. And 2 mastery levels. He is a flyer, and like with all flyers you can expect him to be super high on the target priority list AND our FMC's start the board in glide mode(aka not as a "flyer") so it's almost a must like with all our flyers to keep them within 6" of a venomthrope for a free cover save on turn 1(possible turn 2 if possible).

On fast attack Crones are another big flyer for tyranids. They're good anti-air which is something we don't have much of. Each one of these guys has 4 one time use haywire missiles that reroll to hit flyer targets, and their vector strike is great against flyers(AND because it's not a shooting attack, its not affected negatively if you jink despite the fact it reduces your total shooting attacks for the turn). Once these guys burn out their missiles they can still fly around raking air vehicles(and ground too, but not as hard).

Harpies are....not bad. You won't see them as often as crones or flyrants imo. Gargoyles aren't a bad fast attack choice either but I probably wouldn't take them outside of the dataslate formation for skyblight which makes them awesome.

So right with those I'd say crones and flyrants are a strength. And while you don't want to build your lists around the survival of a venomthrope because they are very squishy, they are almost an auto-take in most tyranid lists.

While still on elites our zoanthropes and hive guard are probably next most popular elites other than venomthropes. I like zoanthropes a lot, largely to add rolls to my psychic pool because I very much enjoy having catalyst(FnP) at my disposal if possible. Makes a huge difference, especially if tossed onto a threatening FMC. Plus there's the potential Warp Blast on an armored target despite the low chance of success(psychic test, then deny, then roll to hit, then roll to see if anything happened). Also they're fairly survivable slow moving synapse(dat warp field). I used to run a lot more hive guard, but they nerfed their BS in the latest nid codex and frankly it seems like they never even come close to making their points back in games I use them. Literally the best use I've had of them is tying up a CC unit enemies have sent through my lines because str 4 weapons need 6's to wound them, and that's kind of sad since their purpose is to be shooting not being a saving grace to my biovores. 

On troops you'll see a few popular things. Warriors have become much more common for objective holding because in cover their 3 wounds a pop is significant. Rippers are making quite the comeback since they're cheap, hard to hit, and scoring now(hell you can even deepstrike them).

The tervigon is a good troop choice as well, though you need to fulfill the 30 gaunt tax to field them which isn't bad in it's own right because you can use that as a tarpit unit. The terv being a 6 wound, T6 objective scorer with another psychic roll isn't shabby. I often run just the 30 gaunts and tervigon for troops in a single detachment(if I have a second detachment the next group tends to be the minimum amount of rippers).

Hormagaunts and genestealers don't see much action anymore. They CAN make their points back if used correctly but often they just die as they're about to reach the enemy line for far too many points.

On heavy support you see a lot of biovores and exocrines and which you select often has more to do with what your specific list lacks. I THINK that's more or less the tyranid players top choices(as I've gathered on the hive), though you still do see acid spray tyrannofex's, devilfex's(twin linked brainleech), and the occasional mawloc(more of a fun then competitive tool because of potential to do nothing).

Our other heavys are kind of lackluster. Close combat fex's don't often connect with targets you'd like to hit if at all, the trygon(and t-prime) are unimpressive in close combat except against units that suck in combat(the prime has a nice 12 shots when it enters, but not worth his points imo). On the Tfex the rupture cannon has too few shots at an unimpressive BS, and the fleshborer hive is too low str with lackluster BS to be too useful.

[FTGT-BeeCee]

I think Nidsinrva hit the nail on the head. I went to the Tyrannofex as a 3rd HS unit lately but i am going to go back to the LAN for a bit.

[Squire]

Skyblight looks awesome, I can see it giving opponents fits. I think if I wanted to do skyblight I'd be tempted to not bother with biovores and spend the points (plus a bit more) and heavy support slot on another dakkafex for opening transports to make sure the harpies have units to shoot at and bomb

Anyway, I suspect triple (even double) dakka flyrant skyblight could do very well at tournaments. That many shooty FMCs isn't going to be remotely fun to play against for most opponents

[frozenhamster86]

Are all of the expansions for Leviathan worth it? If not which ones should I get?

"I would much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent person, to the thoughtless adoration of the masses." - Johannes Kepler