6th Ed = Herohammer

[ZergLord]

Well, I had my first 2 games of 6th Ed today, and I like it. But there's one thing that really bothers me right now...

Of all the things you guys complain about (Overwatch OP? Seriously?!), I can't believe nobody noticed this. The wound allocation system is very flawed. If you thought that Deathstar units were "good" or "great" in 5th Ed, think again.

So, when you shoot at a unit, you must remove the models who were the closest ones to the firing unit. When a model dies you continue allocating wounds to the other closest model. The problem begins when you have an independent character with different, better save.

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So, if we have the unit "A" shooting at unit "B" which is lead by an Independent Character "C", the "B"s owning player must allocate wounds to the IC since he's the closest and roll saves one by one. He can do one "Look out Sir" on 2+, which will result in one model (any model) in the unit taking the wound, and he can continue rolling saves. If another unit shoots the unit "B", he can make another Look Out Sir.

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In close combat, the situation is actually very similar. The models that must be killed first are the ones in BtB. EDIT: when other models in BtB die, the owning player allocates all remaining wounds to the IC and he keeps rolling saves, the other guys essentially serve as extra wounds since Look Out Sir works in CC too...

I want you to imagine following ICs in the abovementioned setups.

Necron Lord
Lysander
Ghazgul
Wolf Lord
Typhus
Our very own Swarmlord or Tyrant with 2+ Save (with Guards of course)

If you get a powerful character who has good survivability, and put it in a unit which also has good survivability (a blob, multiwound units etc) you get a unit which is very difficult to deal with. You'll have to manouver around it and invest a lot of firepower, and if you want to fight it in CC I think you'll have a hard time if you don't play smart.

Something tells me that this type of gameplay - putting as much ICs in a unit - will become popular...

[coredump]

Its not explicit in your post, but I believe you are making a mistake in the LOS rules.

You can LOS upon *allocation* of (unsaved) wounds. So either:

Same armor saves: Roll all armor saves, Allocate Unsaved Wounds, LOS or not, Roll FnP (If all models have FnP, you can make these rolls with the armor rolls.)
Mixed armor saves: Allocate Wounds, LOS or not, Roll armor saves, roll FnP.

What you can *NOT* do, is allocate a Wound to an IC, then roll a save, then LOS to another model.

*Allocation* is the trigger.

[Talonis]

On the topic of Heroes...

Watch out for BA Corbello... 2+ FnP makes him almost impossible to kill by shooting normal weapons. Just played a game with both him and mephiston... evil.

[coredump]

Good news is that at T4, we can ID him and avoid the FnP.

Bad news is he will just LOS those hits.

Looks like a challenge is in order....HT with Smash Attack, double that pimp out!!

[WestRider]

Yeah, Corbulo takes a lot of killing. And you pretty much have to do it in Assault, or he'll just jump over to another Unit and start LOS!-ing anything S8+ again. Once you lock him in Assault, tho, a combination of getting an MC on him and something at a different Init on the rest of the Squad will grind them down eventually, and then it's Smashing Time.

[Jabberwocky]

There are now good counters to deathstars available to more armies.

Maledictions such as enfeeble, can be used by as many psykers as have it. Bring them down to T3 and they won't last long.

[Talonis]

Would bringing them down to T3 found for the purposes of ID? Or would you still use their profile of T4?

[ZergLord]

coredump: Yup, you're right. And I also got Wound Allocation in CC wrong.

[andy089]

I think it's a pity that IG can't really take proper warmasters. I.e. one that can actually hurt things in a challenge...
but then again it's pretty much OP in most other respects...

[WestRider]

Jul 8, 2012 7:20:43 GMT Talonis said:

Would bringing them down to T3 found for the purposes of ID? Or would you still use their profile of T4?

You always use modified Toughness for Instant Death purposes now. Mentions it in the Instant Death section on Pg. 16.

Makes Multi-Wound Bikes rather nicer.

[coredump]

Also the Enfeeble power........

[Bot]

I've only used a 6th edition psyker list once... But man... Enfeeble was... *drool, drool, drool* Also, it would be pretty nice to ID enemy frontline Characters with the combination of Enfeeble and Devours.

[nidzy]

2 experiences brought up in this thread came up in my last game. It was Tau, with a space marine detatchment (battle brothers? Thats make loving ridiculous). Player took a firewarrior heavy list with 6 crisis suits, a broadside, some pathfinders stealth suits and kroot then a drop pod with a terminator libby and some tac marines along with a squad of typhoon speeders and a squad of scout snipers.

Top of turn 2: libby enfeebles my tervigon. Broadside one shots it out of cover (like 50" from his firebase I might add, in hammer and anvil). Rest of the tau/marine army shoots down a hive tyrant and a trygon.

Bottom of turn 2: my reserves arrive and instead of hitting the squishy tau part of his army as I should of, I focused on the marines. Devilgaunts wound 16 times, resulting in one look out sir kill of a marine. Ymgarl assault them and missile launcher and plasma hit on overwatch, squad dies in the next assault phase. Tyrant swoops on and kills the speeders and is subsequently shot to death. Game.

[coredump]

Couple of things:
Did you remember your 5+ "save" from Deny the Witch? (not 6+)

Maledictions are cast at the beginning of the phase. Which means you can't use them the turn you come in from reserves. So he Libby would have had to wait until the next turn.

Could you give more info about the Devilgaunts shooting at the marines? It sounds fishy....

[nidzy]

coredump I left out a lot of poor maneuvering on my part...

-there was only one drop pod so the Libby/marines came in on turn one. I ran a bit too far with the tervigon in my turn and failed to measure which was brutal.
-I did forget that deny the witch was a 5+ because of the tervigons mastery level. I don't remember what I rolled...

- devilgants landed, the way he had disembarked from the drop pod with the Libby forward, and the way I deployed my guys to keep cover meant the the Libby was definitely the closest model. I hit and wounded about average. He proceeded to roll armor saves on his squad. He rolled armor saves until the wound pool was empty, failing 1 armor save with the Libby, he made LO,S killing a regular dude.

Now this wasn't average rolling. He should have failed another one or 2ish...but even if he had this would have been absurdly effective. It probably hurt even more that he had just one shotted my tervigon perhaps 20 minutes before.

Reading through the rules I believe we played this correctly. Any insights?

*edit* reading through again I think that I understand your argument above. However I think my initial confusion comes from a misreading of the book that I wanted to clarify further. On page 16 in the rules for LO,S when it refers to "wound (or unsaved wound)" does that mean (wound for which no save has been taken?) I have been reading it as wound or (wound that you didn't make your save for) which is quite different. However, the result would still have been a Libby with one remaining wound.