Necron Questions/Points

[Devil's Advocate]

Nov 14, 2011 23:38:25 GMT voidwraith said:

Please. You can't honestly say that when you read/heard about this you said to yourself "that sounds like a fun, powerful ability. 175pts? That seems fair." I'm sure it was more like "wow...I can't believe they worded that ability like that. It leaves it's interpretation open for some craziness! I'm going to love exploiting this until it gets FAQd!"

You're not an idiot, so don't reference other nifty "no-where near as broken" abilities as a way to justify your stupid stance on this one.

You should honestly be ashamed of yourself. Seriously.

Wow. Offensive much?

You just said I'm not an idiot, but then called my stance (and by extension me) stupid and said I should be ashamed of myself. I have yet to get personal here - but hey, I guess I can't hold everyone to such a high standard.

Look, honestly, I don't care - you're a voice on the internet. Your opinion of me is about as important to me as that of a flea dying of starvation in Ethiopia.

The people I have to deal with are the people I play the game against. My LGW manager, completely on his own, decided that the house rules were the death ray hits everyone in the unit. He based this on his understanding of the rules and his understanding of the english language. I've argued both sides of the argument in his store. His store, his house rules.

In the end, I'm going to follow what the house ruling is. My store will follow the manager's ruling, the manager's ruling will follow whatever the FAQ comes out with (assuming it is on there). If I take it to a tournament, I'll find out what the tournament's ruling is and follow that.

As for the cost:
More goes into the cost than simply how much damage the unit can do. The durability figures in. Speed, reliability, effective range, and more.

Psychotroke Grenades - 15 points (plus 90 points for the techmarine)
Never before have I ever seen a piece of wargear single-handedly destroy entire assaults - for only 15 points
Good luck ferreting that guy out of a squad before you assault it.

Cleansing Flame - 120 points for base purifier squad
Have you seen what that thing does to non-power-armor assault units? god forbid you actually do a multi-assault.
Yeah sure, that's only 5 marines. Just don't overlook their return firepower whilst you shoot them to death.

JotWW - need I say more?

Monolith - 200 points
Eternity gate removes any model within d6" on a failed str test.
-ANY MODEL- this means dreadnoughts, characters with eternal warrior, entire IG platoons... Why is it more? because of it's ability to deep strike and use that ability and ignore anything that isn't Str 8 or better.


This vehicle is armor 11. Str 5 weapons and better can take it down. Str 9 almost auto-glances it. It's fast? so what? 3+ cover save isn't going to protect it all that well. Immobilized and weapon destroyed results remove the threat.

Sure its potential range is significant, but it's the potential range. the starting range of 12" is short enough that if you don't destroy the unit you just shot at, you're probably going to lose the doomscythe on your opponents turn.

GTFOverIt.

[voidwraith]

Nov 15, 2011 16:26:53 GMT Devil's Advocate said:

Nov 14, 2011 23:38:25 GMT voidwraith said:

As for the cost:
More goes into the cost than simply how much damage the unit can do. The durability figures in. Speed, reliability, effective range, and more.

Psychotroke Grenades - 15 points (plus 90 points for the techmarine)
Never before have I ever seen a piece of wargear single-handedly destroy entire assaults - for only 15 points
Good luck ferreting that guy out of a squad before you assault it.

Cleansing Flame - 120 points for base purifier squad
Have you seen what that thing does to non-power-armor assault units? god forbid you actually do a multi-assault.
Yeah sure, that's only 5 marines. Just don't overlook their return firepower whilst you shoot them to death.

JotWW - need I say more?

Monolith - 200 points
Eternity gate removes any model within d6" on a failed str test.
-ANY MODEL- this means dreadnoughts, characters with eternal warrior, entire IG platoons... Why is it more? because of it's ability to deep strike and use that ability and ignore anything that isn't Str 8 or better.

You're still doing it.

Regardless, i'll just get over it. We'll never play and it'll be FAQd soon.

[Tyrantor]

Seriously guys?
Stop.
Both of you have had your little dig at each other, now stop. It's detrimental to the progress of the thread.

@geneva - The Annihilation Barge.

[Psychichobo]

I've only just noticed rummaging through newer dexes that there's an awful lot more 'removes from play' stuff now. Only had it pointed out to me recently, but nearly every 5th ed dex has some form of it now, occasionally multiple times. Jaws, Brother Captain Stern's Power, Lukas's bomb, that Inquisitor's death cube thing... I dunno, it's just starting to seem more oddly commonplace.

So much for eternal warrior! Ah wells. As for first turn charges I'm not too worried, they turn up a lot in spearhead anyway.

[maugrim]

Actually - that brings up a question, especially relevant because how awful JOTWW and Warp Rift will be against Necrons:

Do you get a Reanimation roll when you are "removed from play"?

[carnogaunt]

Reanimation Protocols kick in when you are "removed as a casualty." So, yes, you always get an RP roll. (Well, except perhaps against Vortex Grenades in Apocalypse, but even that's debatable.)

Edit- Note that fluff-wise, a successful RP roll means that a damaged Necron is standing back up. Rules-wise, it's more like getting a new model to replace a dead one.

[Devil's Advocate]

be prepared for the FAQ to say no, you don't get RP for removes from play.

my argument: the model was removed from play, not removed as a casualty. so no, you don't get RP.

[Tyrantor]

I'd probably side with DA on this one.

The model is simply removed from the board.

[carnogaunt]

"If a model with this special rule is removed as a casualty... place an Ever-living counter where the model was removed from play."
-Codex: Necrons, p. 29, emphasis mine.

Here, the terms "removed from play" and "removed as a casualty" are used interchangeably, and to my knowledge there is no other case in 40k where there would be a distinction between the two.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the FAQ ends up saying otherwise, but I think RAW is on my side of the argument.

[Tyrantor]

I'd argue that it's only activated when it's removed as a casualty then, and that being straight-up removed from the board does't constitute being removed as a casualty.
So because it was't removed as a casualty then RP doesn't activate.

Thoughts?

[Psychichobo]

If I recall, it was actually stated in an FAQ for the previous Necron dex (or it might've been another dex) that Lukas the Trickster's stasis bomb, which removes from play, did not actually prevent Necrons from coming back, since it didn't meet the requirements for denying We'll Be Back. This also counted for Jaws due to the wording being similar.

So I'm wondering if it actually will be errata'd to prevent Necrons coming back, seeing as it was the opposite case with the previous rule.

Check the wording of Jaws et al - some of them actually tell you that the model is treated as a casualty and removed from play.