Do Eldar Suck?

[gimlet]

Do Eldar Suck? My friend plays as Eldar and he just cant win any games. He started not too long ago and has a small army(just like me and the rest of my warhammer buddies)

My Eldar playing friend has:
Farseer
Gaurdians
Dire Avengers
Rangers
Wraith Lord
Fire Prism

Of how many troops each i dont honestly know. When he plays he likes to take a defensive approach and never advances more than 2 feet. He doesnt keep his troops behind cover and mainly just waits for my approaching tyranid fleet to arrive. The best he has done against me is probably kill 4 stealers, a few gaunts, and one ripper base. Against my IG playing friend the best he did was kill about 10 guardsmen and 2 Karskins. But on the other hand he almost always does well against my Chaos playing friend, either destroying him or coming close to victory.

Is this normal for Eldar armies to do poorly against 'nids and IG, yet dominate Chaos, or is this just his luck? If not does anyone have any tips for him other than use cover? Any tips or suggestions would be great as i would love to see him start winning more games or at least do better in ones against 'nids and IG.

thx
-gimlet

[miggel]

Eldar don't suck, your friend just plays them wrong/ poor army list.
The Dire Avangers alone should be able to kill a huge bunch of small based nids in one round. 30 shots at 18 inches hurts. Ok, they can't move the turn after, but they can have a 5+ invul in cc and lower your attacks by 1. Together with the Far seer everything they shoot at should be dead (re-rolls to hit and to wound)
The guardian must have a weapon paltform, so put a star cannon on it for 2x S6 AP2 shots or a shuriken cannon for 3 shots of gaunt killing.
The Illum Zar has a 5 inch template of kill-everything-that-is-not-an-MC against tyranids. And it can take upgrades that make it really hard to destroy.
A Wraitlord can be equipped to fit nearly every role on the battlefield, what does he use?
Rangers hir easy and wound everything on a 4+. And tehy can get AP 1 on a lucky roll.
And, you guys play with how much points?

[coredump]

Yes the suck. They are pathetic Pointy eared tree hugging fools. They are past their time, and should just become biomass for the hive.

But other than that, they are a very powerful army, and one of the toughest codex's currently available.
He may want to look into: Eldrad, harlequins, wave serpents, falcons. There are more, but sheesh, most of the codex is solid.

If you have a fairly CC army, he shouldn't advance at all, he should be shooting the heck out of you.

[gimlet]

we normally play to about 800ish points, sometimes we go to 500, sometimes 1000. When we do that though, we proxy stuff in. Im not sure what he has on his Wraith Lord, all i know is that my beetle fex owns it every time. After what you guys told me, i dont think he reads his codex well. He doesnt do half that stuff, but ill be sure to tell him. Hes only 12 so he is still learning the game and doesnt make that many smart decisions. What about guard though? I would really love to see him win against his brother (the IG player).

IG player fields mainly(sometimes varys tho)
Guardsmen
Karskins
HQ squad
chimera
1-2 leman russes(he changes then up every game, so not sure which one, but he prefers the annihilator)

Any help will make me and my Eldar playing friend very happy!!!!

thx
-gimlet

[miggel]

You should read his codex. Make sure the list he fields is a legal one, which i doubt when i hear what he doesn't do.
How can your fex own an other MC that even strikes before you?

The Fire Prism and bright lances should make short work of the IG tanks. Rangers (maybe upgraded) harass the enemy troops. When their tanks are down and he gets casualities every turn from the rangers he has to advance. Use the fire prism tamplate to kill more guards. When he's in range dire avanger shuriken storm combined with some far ser powers.

[Shas'o Tash'var Kais Pat]

Eldar are extremely good if u use them right. And you've gotta learn, that even if you are facing an assault army, u still gotta move the eldar, so that u can make the decisisions. But they can b a bit hard 2 use properly for new players, he just sounds like he needs practice with them.

[ZergLord]

Do eldar suck??? No, your friend sucks.

Eldar are one of most powerfull armies. Heck, I think that an Eldar hybrid army (which is used properly) is nigh invincible.

Your friend just needs to think when he plays.

[Devil's Advocate]

The real thing about the eldar army is that it's a more co-dependent list than most other armies.

For example, nearly any Space marine unit can stand on it's own for a round or two, and can often achieve objectives alone that other army's units can't; each unit functioning on the table as an independent piece.
~Tyranids are fairly co-dependent. Gaunts require synapse to function properly. Synapse adds a level of control to all units that you don't normally have, but we still have units that can operate independently for an entire game, such as Genestealers, Raveners, Fexi, etc.
~Necrons can function independently or as a co-dependent force, due to the inclusion of res orbs, Monoliths, Gaze of Flame, etc.

Eldar armies require interdependence to function properly.
~A Dire Avenger squad is just a IG squad with a different gun... but add the unit leader with the bladestorm ability and things start to get ugly. throw in a farseer with guide or doom and suddenly your 24 strong gaunt unit has just been cut down in a single round of shooting from a single unit.
~Harlequins are a fun unit to play with. have some neat movement capabilites and so forth, but really aren't all that scary. Really just a bunch of Hgaunts with a couple cool rules. Give them all the rending weapon and they've suddenly gained the ability to reliably take down any Monstrous creature in the game. put them in a transport and deliver them anywhere on the table within 2 rounds.
~Guardians are another boring GEq unit... until you give them a weapons platform that can fire heavy weapons and move in the same round (they still have that, right?)
~Wraithlords, like Carnifexes, should be focused on a task and be ready to perform that duty. that task should be in support of the rest of the army.

the biggest problem young players have these days is they load up a model or a unit with what they think is "cool" and don't give very much thought to what the overall army looks like.

so if I were to guess, I would predict his army list suffers from lack of overall focus and lack of choices.

[lowlygaunt]

I can't give him advice as to how to play his army. Like some others on this board I really am opposed to the "play it this way and you will win" comments. No one has the "secret" to any army. Every army is different, and each army has multiple ways to be effective. That said:
Used correctly and together the Eldar list is one of the strongest in the game. But you have to use tactics, and each unit must play its role. If you are a stand still and shoot or charge straight forward player, find another list. If you are a chess player rather than checkers, Eldar is the army for you. Howling banshees cannot jump out of a wave serpent and destroy 12 Genestealers, but. . put doom on the genestealers, shoot those genestealers with a squad of guardians, and then hit them with banshees and they are toast. A wraithlord against a CC carnifex is in trouble. A CC carnifex will have more attacks, they both wound on a 2, so pretty even. But, shoot that carnifex with the Wraithlords weapons, and a squad of pathfinders (10, shooting, hit 9.4, thats 3.3 chances at 50% for an unsaved wound already ((pathfinders get an AP 1 wound on a 5 or 6)) and the fex goes down ugly. Tactics, tactics, tactics!! My Eldar army is the toughest army I field by a longshot because of its flexibility.
Tell your friend to either keep trying different strategies, or try a different army for a bit. Maybe Dark Angels so he can get used to some tougher shooty troops?

[graveaccomplice]

One thing to let your player know: Eldar are generally an aggressive army (this is saying a bit given the nature of the game). They don't take hits well, and can't afford to sit and wait for the enemy. They do much better with hit & run tactics or focused offensives (put so much hurt into an enemy unit that they can't retaliate). With a few exceptions, their units specialize in hitting first, hitting hard, and not taking on other units one on one (at least not fairly).

See if you can get him to change his tactics, and see if that helps.

[Overread]

Only point I could add is that he should try using pathfinders - they get a seriously high coversave which makes them pretty much unshootable for a nid army - oh you can shoot, but you'll never kill!. They are also good at taking out both monsterous creatures and genestealer broods - thier only weakness is CC (as your giveing your friend advice on how to beat you - once he has a few wins under his belt drop a lictor or two into his pathfinder squade (which should be in cover) and cut them up)

[ZergLord]

overmind2000 said:

Only point I could add is that he should try using pathfinders - they get a seriously high coversave which makes them pretty much unshootable for a nid army - oh you can shoot, but you'll never kill!. They are also good at taking out both monsterous creatures and genestealer broods - thier only weakness is CC (as your giveing your friend advice on how to beat you - once he has a few wins under his belt drop a lictor or two into his pathfinder squade (which should be in cover) and cut them up)

Pathfinders? Aren't they Tau?

[lowlygaunt]

He means the upgraded Eldar rangers. Which are also called pathfinders.

[andersschm]

LOL Do Eldar Suck? No

- but I do lose with them when I make mistakes while my nids are more forgiving.

[lowlygaunt]

I play 5 different 40k armies routinely (Tyranids, SoB's, IG, Nurgle SM's, and Eldar, generaly at least once a week for each army) and three others occasionally, and the Tyranids are the easiest and most forgiving army of them all. I find them the most powerfull by a longshot, with the fewest tactical decisions having to be made for success. How about switching armies with him for a few games and see how you do as Eldar and how he does as Tyranids? You will learn a lot more about each army by doing this.