6 Dreads?

[CylonDorado]

Ok, I've been looking through my smurf dex, and as I'm sure you are all aware, if you take a master of the forge as your HQ, you can take dreadnaughts as your heavy support.

So far I've considered the idea of taking one so I could max out on elites and still have a dread or two in the army (I figure a landraider could be taken as the dedicated transport of some termies, and then with one or two more heavies I aught to be set for a while). But the idea of taking 6 does present itself as interesting. I think it would be a pain though, since dreads arn't really that amazing, or hard to kill.

The way I imagined it would be maybe 3 dreadnaughts (maybe one venerable) with anti-tank gear such as las-cannon/missle launcher. If I where to take a venerable dread, I would consider keeping the multi-melta instead of giving it a twin-linked las cannon, since that sucker costs more quite a few more points anyway, and the twin-linked isn't horribly needed with BS5. Though range is an issue (Drop pod?).

Then the other 3 could be iron-clads who would get up in peoples faces with that extra CC attack and melta-gun, and probably a heavy flamer. I'm thinking they would benifit from drop pods as well.

At a minimum, 6 dreadnaughts would cost 630 points, and that's also before you make any of them iron clad or venerable.

What do you think, is it viable?

[WestRider]

I played against a Blood Angels Army that ran 6 Dreads back in 3rd Ed, and it was pretty nasty. AV 12 isn't indestructible, but with 6 of them, and the 5th Ed Damage Table, they could be surprisingly resilient. I've been running a lot of AV 12 in my Guard with all the Chimeras and HellHound Variants and Artillery Tanks I've been messing with, and they've held up quite well.

Getting one Iron Clad or Venerable Dread dropped in your face on Turn 1 is bad enough. Two would be very strong, especially if they've got a couple more coming in behind them.

I think the main thing to consider in terms of viability is the Points Level. These guys are going to suck up a fair chunk of Points, and you need to make sure that you've still got enough Scoring Units to take Objectives. At a rough guess, I'd say it would start becoming viable at around 2000 Points.

[waaanial00]

IronClads in Drop pods are really not what everyone is raving about. Trust me this experience comes off the back of using one over a 3 month period. It almost always gets IMobilised or destroyed in turn 1.

Ok with 3 of them you are increasing the chances of it surviving but once you have that many you dont really need to drop pod them. The times where I have run an Ironclad on the ground it has taken until turn 3 to stop it bare minimum and that is because the enemy:

a- Doesnt percieve it as a threat at range
b- They do not have the ranged power to take it out

If you are going to drop pod anything then I would drop pod two Venerable Dreads. Arm them with Assault cannons and TL Autocannons (Autocannons from the Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons Squad work nicely and there should be a lot about with all the new guard players bringing lascannons and ignoring the rest). This beast will chew through hoard and armour.

Being Venerable it makes them a little more survivable in the enemies ranks. If you want my opinion I think a few Techmarine Elites need to be in the first wave with Tac Squad or even Assault Marines in drop pods. This will ensure that they are ready to fix those imobilised dreads.

All in all though it is very niche, once the enemy figures out that they are not fleet and cannot assault on turn 1 they are going to be able to counter it fairly easily. Might be worth considering for anti Guard, getting up close and personaly with a load of anti infantry dreads will certainly mess up their battle lines however they can pack a lot of melta weapons which might spoil your day.

Wan

[flyingspoon]

It depends as I can take out dreadnoughts easily enough but even then i'm used to going againt two at most, 6 is deadly I'd expect it to do well for the first few games until people start writing anti-dread lists, I'd say if you can afford it do it as it would be deadly just avoid wraithlords

[salamut2202]

marine equivalent to nidzilla?

[Captain Malachi]

Sally: About as close as they (we) can get, but nowhere near good enough. I'd rather have an MC than a dread any day.

The 6 dread list is one of those builds where it wins its first 5-10 games, and then never, ever wins again. If you do want to do it, put them all in pods, I know that sounds like a bit much, but 2-3 dreads is easy to stop when they're that close (meltas + rear armour 10 = dead dread), but 6 is a little harder. I'd go for 6 ironclads and a solid core of tacticals.

[CylonDorado]

May 15, 2009 12:42:46 GMT Captain Malachi said:

Sally: About as close as they (we) can get, but nowhere near good enough. I'd rather have an MC than a dread any day.

The 6 dread list is one of those builds where it wins its first 5-10 games, and then never, ever wins again. If you do want to do it, put them all in pods, I know that sounds like a bit much, but 2-3 dreads is easy to stop when they're that close (meltas + rear armour 10 = dead dread), but 6 is a little harder. I'd go for 6 ironclads and a solid core of tacticals.

This is pretty true. Tyrants would be the main problem. I figure I *might* just beat a fex if I shoot it with a couple las cannons, then have an ironclad shoot its mulit-melta (and its storm bolter or heavy flamer for the heck of it) and then charge. But the tyrant has initiative on all of them, so a CC tyrant could really ruin your day.

But I don't know if it's as dire as that, like westrider said, it might be viable at 2000 points, though it depends on what else I would take in the army.

Maybe some land speeders could help ;D.

[esjyt]

i dont play space marines
but pedro cantor
2 min troops
3 stern guard sqauds
and some drednoghts all in drop pods sounds like a decent army

[Biowraith]

Ack! nasty, nasty marines. This be even more proof that marines are OP. But hay it would be really interesting to play 6 IC, against a steelers shock army, with a HT. Hummm.....

[Redwax]

Looks like we'll need the can opener biomorph.

[esjyt]

May 15, 2009 15:47:09 GMT Biowraith said:

Ack! nasty, nasty marines. This be even more proof that marines are OP. But hay it would be really interesting to play 6 IC, against a steelers shock army, with a HT. Hummm.....

space marines are not what so ever overpowered
do they have a few neat tricks and a well balenced army sure
if your playing nids against them all you gotta worry about is
stern guard because they can kill a single fex per phase per unit of stern guard....respond with charageing them with a carnifex....it works wonders...then there army consists of a bunch of suicide units....
combat sqauds was a good idea untill you get bull headed about things

[Psychichobo]

I dunno about losing them all so early. They'd take melta shots badly, but cover saves are there for a reason! Just focus fire on anything that has a good chance of hurt them when you arrive. Venerables should stand more capably against meltas, and there may not be a lot present in everyone's list...

[braytac]

if you put them in drop pods then you will always have a coversave wen they try to shoot you in de back because if you are smart je put the back of the dread against te drop pod so you can claim a cover save if the shoot you in the back.

[Zemox]

I really really love playing against SM armies that drop pods allot, the shorter you have to run to get lunch the better.

[CylonDorado]

Yeah it seems that the best thing to do would be to have some really good long-firepower and give your CC troops support as they advance. But that doesn't work as well for dreadnaughts, since they can be minced at range with anti-tank guns, so a drop pod seems like a better option for them. Which is also why I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of a 100% kitted out for shooting dread, since the main advantage of a dread over a tank is the fact that it can attack in CC. If you're going for range, a predator would have more guns that shoot at the same Balistic Skill and have a better front armor for 10 more points.

I really hate how you can't win combat against a dread without killing it, the other day I played a marine player and I just mentioned my general annoyance at that, and he gave me a very vauge, very smug answer that had something to do with how it was made of metal or some BS (I think he assumed I didn't know how it worked, and thaught he needed to explain it to me). I think it's just to streamline the rules, but they think it makes perfect sense because they're marines . (It was really just terrible luck that my fex failed a 2+ no retreat save).

I want to make an awsome marine list just so I can own them and show them what's what. Until then I will continue to own them with Eldar ;D.