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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 27, 2009 8:54:49 GMT
Ok, I was just wondering what you would say if you came across this Eldar list with your Tyranids or whichever army you feel like playing with at the time and decided to have a friendly game. This is the list I would make once I scrimp and save up for a new Eldar battleforce, giving me some much needed troops to get me to a comfortable 1500 or so. Here's the list: HQ: Farseer with guide & a singing spear (12" range, always wounds on a 2, AP 6, S9 for armor penn). Elites: 6 fire dragons in a wave serpent transport with soul stones (stunned becomes shaken) and a twin linked shuriken cannon. Troops: 10 dire avengers with an exarch (squad leader) with a power weapon and shimmer shield (whole squad gets a 5+ invoulnerable in CC). 10 dire avengers with an exarch with 2 guns and the bladestorm ability (everybody could get an extra shot, but you can't shoot next turn) with a wave serpent that has spirit stones, vectored engines (imobilized results don't destroy it), and a twin-linked shuriken cannon. 15 guardians with a scatter laser (assault 4, S6, ap6) 14 guardians with a scatter laser and a warlock with embolden (the squad rerolls failed leadership tests) and a singing spear. 5 pathfinders (snipers) Heavy support: 5 dark reapers with an exarch that has a tempest launcher (heavy 2, s4 blast, AP3, indirect fire) and the crack shot power (reroll to wound and ignore cover). And lastly, my beloved Wraithlord with 2 flamers, an Eldar missle launcher, and a bright lance. I would also have one gaurdian, 2 warwalkers that I plan on magnatizing, and 6 harlequins plus a shadow seer in my collection. Think I would be better off with any of them in there instead of anything else? I always have wanted to try flanking war-walkers, but that armor 10 has always made me nervous . But I guess if they were heavier, they would make more noise and couldn't scout then could they?
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Post by zzapper on Feb 27, 2009 11:29:27 GMT
I'm sorry but where are your vehicular cheese units?
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Post by braytac on Feb 27, 2009 12:48:30 GMT
the last 4 battles i did where against eldar. and your list is pretty easy to counter, because you are just not fast enough. i always use rhino transports for my troops, so i think i can actually outmaneuver your army. the only real scarry thing to me are your fire dragons and reapers. so i would focus on staying out of sight from your reapers and cripple your transport for the fire dragons. i would use bikers with 3 melta guns(2meltaguns 1 multie melta) to take out your transport and use assault squads/tac squad in landraider to take out your reapers from there it would be pretty easy to kill your scoring units with concentrated bolter fire and vindicator shots. vindicator would work very well because you use large mobs of troops.
my suggestion is to put your fire dragons in a falcon give your second dire avenger group a wave serpent. and give both of your dire avenger group the bladestorm ability lose the power weapon and get the twin guns for your exarch guy. you want to shoot with your dire avengers not get them in to cc the have a high I but thats about it for there cc ability.
keep your eldar mobile fast and hard hitting you don't want them getting stuck in a fire fight ore cc for 2-3 turns.
use your two dire avengers as a single unit. move to a isolated target disembark your 2 squad bladestorm with 20 dire avengers that is 54 shots(if i remember correctly) obliterate a enemy unit next turn embark on your transports again and fly away to a save location then in the next turn repeat it. and keep your wave serpents in between your target and your dire avengers.
use your reapers for covering fire and to keep lanes clear of enemy squads. nobody is stupid enough to step in los of a reaper squad and if the do just grin and teach them a lesson.
use your rangers as sneaky objective claimers try to let your opponent forget the are there and in the last turn point out that you have a claiming unit on a objective.
for the fire dragons in falcon just use them as thank hunters(duh) if the kill just one tank you have your points back. but don't forget the have S8 ap1 guns so hunting heavy infantry (terminators,nobs,tyrant,battle suits)is a also a great job for them.
and last use your wraiglord and 2 guardian squads as a single unit don't spread them out to much use them to put pressure on a flank and make a steady advance toward objectives ore defend one with them. but the make a good tag team the have a lot of shots your opponent has to choose to shoot your wraiglord ore guardians and in cc the wraighlord can help out the guardians and vica versa.
hope i helped.
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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 27, 2009 15:52:22 GMT
I'm sorry but where are your vehicular cheese units? braytac/in responce to zzapper: Yeah, I used to want a falcon but after the skimmer nerf I've been extremely hesitant to get one. In order to fire or drop guys off they can move 12" which is nice, but unlike in 4rth, it doesn't gain ANY benifits from being a fast skimmer unless it goes flat out. You even hit it on 4's in assault. It might as well be a fat 200 point+ dreadnaught on a flying base. Admitedly the holo-field is nice, but it's just not that good, I commonly see lots of REALLY good rolls on the damage chart to trust that thing (Saw some Tau get double 6's on one last night ). I might prefer a fire prism for the nice gun, but once again, if the other guy's smart, it will get only like 1 turn of shooting before it's at least shaken for the rest of the game. And if he takes the gun off... So that's my take on skimmers. Maybe for mobility I should get some jet-bikes. What do you think? I've also considered flanking war walkers. EDIT: Oh, and I don't do cheese. It's not my thing.
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Post by braytac on Feb 27, 2009 16:44:00 GMT
you forget that a falcon still has a (please do not swear) load of weapons, pulse laser twin linked shurikan catapult +starcannon/eldar missel launcher/scaterlaser ore something else. you can get a lot of high S low AP shot from them.
but if you don't want falcons at least use wave serpents to get your troops into position. i have no experiance whit jetbikes but vypers can be verry nasty! but make sure you stay out of S4 weapon range upgrade the catapult to a cannon for the 36 range. stay in between 24+ and 36 inch of enemy unit so you can fire but the can't hit you with small arms fire.
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Post by hereticfire on Feb 27, 2009 16:49:43 GMT
grr, last time I played eldar the list was very similar to this. I voted for "Oh god, why hast thou forsaken me?"
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Post by WestRider on Feb 27, 2009 19:07:52 GMT
I'd put it somewhere between the middle two options on the poll. Looks decent, I don't think it would be a cakewalk, but it's nowhere near as vicious as most of the Eldar lists I see.
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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 27, 2009 20:23:19 GMT
Well, economiclly, I think it's about the best I can do. If I get a new battleforce I wouldn't be able to afford anything else for a while. That is, unless more people showed up for Warhammer. Then the shop owner might decide to start having local Saturday tournaments once a month again. Then I could try and win a battleforce (that's first prize, then second prize is a box, and third prize is a blister) with my Tyranids. That would be pretty cool.
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Post by WestRider on Feb 28, 2009 19:32:22 GMT
I mentioned this list to one of the Eldar players at my FLGS, and his response was that you were going to get blown off the table without an Avatar to keep everything Fearless. Actually, truth be told, he said you're going to need both a Avatar and Eldrad to make a mostly footslogging list work even in casual games.
Of course, it's entirely possible that your local scene is less competitive than mine. How well have you been doing with them at lower Points levels?
Oh, also, give the Exarch with the Shimmershield the Defend power as well. If there's a Farseer backing them up with Fortune and Doom, that Unit then becomes capable of taking on Assault Terminators and eventually winning. Definitely give your Farseer Fortune and Spirit Stones.
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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 28, 2009 22:29:10 GMT
I mentioned this list to one of the Eldar players at my FLGS, and his response was that you were going to get blown off the table without an Avatar to keep everything Fearless. Actually, truth be told, he said you're going to need both a Avatar and Eldrad to make a mostly footslogging list work even in casual games. Of course, it's entirely possible that your local scene is less competitive than mine. How well have you been doing with them at lower Points levels? Oh, also, give the Exarch with the Shimmershield the Defend power as well. If there's a Farseer backing them up with Fortune and Doom, that Unit then becomes capable of taking on Assault Terminators and eventually winning. Definitely give your Farseer Fortune and Spirit Stones. Hmm, well I havn't really played with my Eldar since 4rth edition , but in those smaller points games I have done very well. But to be honest, in both games against Orks, I've been a bit too lucky against them in CC (first game guardians ran down a mega-nob squad and warboss, the next game some 'Ard boyz. But the wraithlord helped in that second one...). And my guardians seldom ran because I used a somewhat unorthodox stratagy of running them with my farseer (for leadership 10) and the aforementioned embolden warlock. I won my first game against witch hunters (which was appropriate. I love that part in their codex about how they consider the entire Eldar race deviant witches ;D), then my next game I played against Orks in this REDICULOUS mission. It was a night fight and every turn you roll a d6 for ALL your units and if you roll a 6 on any one of them they are attacked by a greater Daemon (not exactly like the one in the codex). I got attacked by it EVERY turn and still won ;D (with no cheese either at 500 points). I tabled a thousand point daemon army and a thousand point tyranid army. Other then that, I beat orks one other time, lost to tyranids one other time, and won a very entertaining makeshift kill team match twice. And lastly, I got got a draw on a team with orks against a team of Eldar and space marines. I like the idea of a better farseer (I'm just used to keeping him cheep in those 1000 points or less games). And I was just thinking the same thing about defend vs. assault marines (as long as they have thunder hammers, I don't think it would work well against claws). That's probably the #1 way to bring them down for Eldar. So I'm thinking based on this that I should get the a third wave serpent, and some fast attack (I'm thinking swooping hawks and warp spiders). So I could have my gunline and a bunch of units to go out and run interferance, or grab objectives. Think that would work better? Sort of a hybrid list...
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Post by WestRider on Mar 1, 2009 0:27:25 GMT
Could be. I don't really know the Eldar well enough to deliver much in the way of critique myself. I'm just passing along Paul's suggestions.
I will say that Paul uses Warp Spiders a lot, and now he's got the hang of them, they're just nasty. Amazing mobility and really frustrating to try and hunt down.
EDIT: He also said to say that as long as you're going mostly footslogging, anyone who accuses you of cheese can go for a long walk off a short pier. You're taking the hard route through the Eldar Dex, grab what breaks you can. Oh, and Missile Launchers on the WarWalkers. They've got range enough to be effective even if you Outflank onto the wrong side.
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Post by hereticfire on Mar 1, 2009 0:43:29 GMT
I can personally vouch for eldrad... I played with my friend's eldar list, and beat him with it... first time playing eldar
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Post by zzapper on Mar 1, 2009 14:07:05 GMT
No, your conspicuous lack of fire prisms...
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Post by CylonDorado on Mar 1, 2009 19:50:27 GMT
Fire prisms are nice. But you can't shake a wraithlord. I think I would prefer another one of those to a fire prism. Not to mention I was thinking of making one that was anti infintry with a scatter laser and shuriken cannon modled like it was dual wielding.
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Post by WestRider on Mar 1, 2009 21:47:22 GMT
The Modeling possibilities in the WraithLord kit are one of the big things that keeps pulling me back towards Eldar, even though I know I can't play them worth $#%&. I totally want to do one like you mentioned, and a kneeling, sniper-style Brightlance one, and some kind of Kung Fu style one with a WraithSword and, and, and...
You get the idea.
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