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ralphinator
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venomthropes?
« Thread Started on May 14, 2012, 8:51pm »
How have peoples experiences with venomthrops been? As of now, I run a list with a swarmlord, tyrant guard, a few hive guard, tervigon and a small brood of termagants, a healthy amount of stealers/broodlords, trygon, and a carnifex when I can fit it in. I've been giving thought to purchasing a venomthrope to run behind my MCs, giving them a coversave while gaining one themselves. How do they work for you guys, and broods of what size?
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #1 on May 14, 2012, 10:04pm »
Some people swear by them. I don't run them because my opponents are smart enough to shoot them with krak missiles for a single round and wiping out the brood, then using the rest of their shooting on everything else. I've not been able to hide mine well enough while the rest of the army advances.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #2 on May 14, 2012, 10:07pm »
Same here really. Used them a while but as time went and my opponents got smarter... The Venomthropes just wouldn't live through turn 1. Would have to get me some of the new Tervigons. Perhaps they can become totally hidden behind them. Perhaps not?
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #3 on May 14, 2012, 10:36pm »
I used to run them a lot, and found them incredibly useful for my front screen, with both the cover save and defensive grenades. But my list style adapted, and I found that they were becoming less useful and went for something else that fit in with it.

But if I went back to how I used to run my lists, they'd be a near auto-include.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #4 on May 14, 2012, 10:41pm »
i have 2 two, but haven't used them much - only because i rarely game now. here's what i have learned when fielding them though:
- in apocalypse they are very useful for shielding the big guys, so I'm sure they would be just as useful in regular games, especially now that we have such huge tervigons and trygons.
- i had one hide behind my tyrant and guard once, and the other behind a brood of 3 screamers. they really helped out, particularly with the fexes; your already paying for the guard to protect the tyrant so why pay more tbh?
- i fielded 2x25 hormies and 2x4 warriors and allocated 1 venomthrope to each. they protected the warriors pretty well and worked wonders on the hormies (its nice to roll a saves on gaunts for once), well until the hormies speeded too far ahead....
- if you've got a spare elite slot get 1or2 to try them out, but I've noticed that hive guard are mandatory where i play and yealers are amazing, so finding the slots for them is the main issue.

hope this helps.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #5 on May 14, 2012, 11:59pm »
To many tanks where I'am, I gotta dedicate all 3 elites to anti tank. Their bonuses are nice but if you know the cover rules you can get yourself cover pretty easily.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #6 on May 15, 2012, 9:08am »
They can be great fun if the enemy dont know what they do. Running them with a gaunt screen can be really effective. Have had some crazy luck some times with those cover saves.

But in the end your enemy realize whats buffing your army like crazy and he blasts them to smithereens.
The models are nice so i usually run them, but not a large brood because they get targeted quickly.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #7 on May 15, 2012, 9:52am »
The more experienced your opponent, the worse they do. Newer players will ignore them thinking they dont do much, then realize when they start shooting a lot of shots or when they try to assault that they do a lot for the army. However, skilled players will simply pick them off very early and you lose a valuable elite slot on a unit that did very little. To me, they realy arent worth running at all in competitive play.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #8 on May 15, 2012, 10:33am »
To me it's more of a case of - why pay an elite slot for a 5+ save that I can't use, as I already have a 4+ save on everything? Usually my opponent does the smart thing and ignores them.
My opponents never seem to fail their dangerous terrain tests either.

The only case I can see them worth it at this point, is in crazy lists like 2 Flyrants, 3 Trygons that can't get cover save otherwise.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #9 on May 16, 2012, 1:47pm »
I haven't tested them in larger games because they take that elite slot but they have been quite effective in smaller games when I hide it behind my tervigon just to give cover save to it and some hive guard out in the open.

But yes if you play against someone who faced it a couple times before it usually dies quickly. If you play a campaign and use the veteran table in the rulebook you can piss your friends of by giving your mc's stealth and then they get a 4+ save near a venomthrope^^
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #10 on May 16, 2012, 3:14pm »
Venomthropes aren't just about the cover save, which is nice enough, particularly when you have stealth (Lictors, Rippers, etc), but also the dangerous terrain test (marginal), and the defensive grenades. The defensive grenades are really useful for dealing with being charged first, which I find is a Tyranid weakness.

They also have utility in supporting charges into cover with their Lash Whips, charges into enemy swarms with their Toxic Miasma, and Toxic Touch would probably be over-powered if the Venomthrope had more attacks. Basically it's a force multiplier.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #11 on May 16, 2012, 4:07pm »
@Nurglitch:

I don't disagree, but as I said, experienced opponents usually spot the venomthrope, dedicate a single unit of heavy weapons (missile launchers, usually) and shoot 'em dead on turn 1. They're hard to hide AND still gain the benefit of their buffs. If I have a hard time keeping Warriors on the the table past turn 3, then there's really no point in me taking Venomthropes.

So, as with much of the game, whether you take venomthropes depends greatly on your local meta.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #12 on May 16, 2012, 7:11pm »
Devil's Advocate:

That's the nice thing about Venomthropes, with no shooting to speak of, they're easy enough to hide behind large monsters where they can go to ground for Cv3+, and an accompanying Warrior Prime can suck a Missile or two before detaching and joining another unit like a Carnifex Brood. I mean it's not like any other Tyranid units easily survive a round of shooting by a heavy weapon squad.

I've had opponents shoot them first too, and it's nice to have the pressure taken off other, more vital units, for a turn or two. That's the interesting thing about them: If your opponent shoots them down you lose a bonus, not a real heavy-lifting unit.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #13 on May 16, 2012, 8:01pm »
I use venomthropes for slow moving, non-deepstriking lists. Primes, Tervigons, termagants, hive guard, trygons. Attaching a prime (or two!) to a few venomthropes means the missles are going on a prime that won't insta-death, and can regen. If you have two primes, you won't lose your venoms. That means your MC's (which normally don't get cover) will get a save in subsequent rounds of shooting. I usually disengage the primes after turn 1 and let the venoms die. If your opponent needs to fire at that one unit for two turns to wipe them out, it guarentees your trygons see battle with nearly full-health.

Any other list though that uses deepstriking or outflanking, I leave the venoms at home in exchange for Ymgarls or DoM.
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Re: venomthropes?
« Reply #14 on May 16, 2012, 8:44pm »

May 16, 2012, 7:11pm, nurglitch wrote:
If your opponent shoots them down you lose a bonus, not a real heavy-lifting unit.


The problem is... that bonus took one of your Elite slots and costed you more than 50 pts a piece.
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