|  Author | Topic: Telekenesis. Am I missing something? (Read 396 times) |
infornography
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|  | Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Thread Started on Jul 9, 2012, 4:39am » | |
So I just went over all the new psyker abilities. It seems to me that all the schools except for divination have some lackluster abilities, but that Telekinesis is nothing but lackluster abilities.
Am I missing something? Is there a good reason to take Telekinesis over ANY of the other schools ever?
To some degree it feels like GW intended Divination to be the best and Telekinesis to be the worst but I can't conceive of a reason why they would do that.
Anyone got any counter points that I have undoubtedly overlooked?
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ziyousansz
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #1 on Jul 9, 2012, 5:09am » | |
The main thing I see about Telekinesis is that it is almost exclusively damage-oriented, while other schools manipulate gameplay aspects. I could see taking it if you fielded an army that struggled with range damage. The two main reasons to take it for a 'nid army, I think, would be Gate and Dome.
Gate, I see three uses for. You can get your melee psykers into the fray early by porting into their deployment zone on turn one and running for cover. I could also see you porting your psyker's unit out of a potential rout and into a position with firing advantage. This could also be used to contest of claim objectives normally outside of reach during the final round.
Dome gives an Invul save, which is always good. While cover saves are easier to get, they're less effective, so the 5+ Invul is the same save you'd usually have but is harder to deal with. A broodlord bomb running into somebody's line will draw some attention, and a bullet reflection shield could soften up a unit that's poised to charge. Likewise, a Terv on an objective could become a much more intimidating target to charge. Given that charge's randomization makes anything above 6" questionable, you'll probably have assault units getting really close before bullets start to fly.
Those are my two cents, in any case. I know I answered it 'nid-specifically, but the bulk of it applies to any given army.
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coredump
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #2 on Jul 9, 2012, 6:30am » | |
really?
Gate lets you pop around the board, pretty good for a shooty unit, or grabbing objectives. Crons use it pretty well.
OM is one of the better anti-flyer options in the game.
TDome gives a nice invuln save to a unit while it charges down the field.
Vortex would make those Termies really sad.
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Aux:"Listen to Westrider like he's the Bible." Westrider: "That's not actually a bad comparison. I'm fallible, subject to human limitation, and often require interpretation  " Jordan's choice: "So i have looked at every army out there but this is the only one with a carnifex so im picking it" Yori:Plastic gargoyles? Sorry, but the current world crisis is global warming, not hell freezing over. |
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infornography
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #3 on Jul 9, 2012, 6:58am » | |
Hmm. I can see how gate might be handy for certain units. Not sure what shooty nid unit would make good use of it though and getting it is unreliable at best. Somewhat situational and probably better for armies that have more psykers who can be attached to shooting scoring units. Would be nice for a troops tervi blipping over to a late objective.
Telekine Dome only applies vs shooting attacks where your armor is most likely to still work. It would be good for units with poor saves though. The damage reflection is too short range to likely help at all given that this only triggers on shooting attacks. I guess it would be good against things like flamers and other templates. In my experience though most shooting happens outside of 6" I'll put this down as situational but not bad.
Objuration mechanicum is the one truly excellent power in the set. This power would be useful in almost any match. Against nids or demons less so, but yes, as said, the best anti air psyker ability in the game currently.
Vortex just made me a bit sad inside. It could be really good. But the quite short range, the fact that at maximum placement it can still scatter back to your unit, and that failing your psyker test drops this directly on your psyker. It is too risky for it to be worth being a Warp Charge 2 ability. It just seems like they overbalanced it. It should either have longer range or not risk exploding right in your face to be worth being Warp Charge 2.
Then there is shockwave which is fairly unlikely to to anything to anything. The assault d6 is the part that confuses me here. Just seems too weak to be worth firing most of the time. If you were more likely to get 5 or 6 shots, then the likelihood of it doing something would increase to the point where I feel it is well balanced.
Then there is crush. Why oh why did they like making things so random with this discipline. Occasionally Crush will be amazing, but more often than not it will be an expensive plasma bolt with random AP.
Last you have what is easily the weakest and least desirable primaris power of all. Again, fairly unlikely to do anything at all, and if it does it will just inconvenience whatever it hits and doesn't kill.
I'm not saying that it is a useless set, but compared to any of the others. The risk of getting powers that are either situational or almost useless is fairly high. I will admit to probably having undervalued gate though.
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insanious
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #4 on Jul 9, 2012, 8:20pm » | |
Am I the only one that likes assail?
1) It auto hits what every it touches
2) It can hit flyers, multiple at that
3) It is s6 so can pen av 11 and glance av12
4) Vs troops it halves their initiative and causes them to take dangerous terrain tests when moving aka. Pile in movements during assault.
5) Even broodlords can use it
I love me some AoE auto hitting s6 attacks that anyone can use. Especially when it gives me a chance to kill vendi's when most other things will not...
Spam it and cast a sick matrix of beams that leaves your opponent unwilling to move,
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infornography
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #5 on Jul 9, 2012, 10:48pm » | |
You still have to roll to hit with beam attacks if I am not mistaken. Might need to doublecheck but I thought all witchfire that wasn't template or blast required a to hit roll.
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kurbutti
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #6 on Jul 9, 2012, 11:02pm » | |
That's right. P.69
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reallysorry
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #7 on Jul 9, 2012, 11:08pm » | |
Further down it says that it automatically hits all targets
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insanious
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #8 on Jul 10, 2012, 12:02am » | |
Jul 9, 2012, 10:48pm, infornography wrote:| You still have to roll to hit with beam attacks if I am not mistaken. Might need to doublecheck but I thought all witchfire that wasn't template or blast required a to hit roll. |
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Its not witchfire, doesn't need a roll to hit. It auto hits everything under the line you draw... just like the beam weapon on the Necron Doom Scythe.
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infornography
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #9 on Jul 10, 2012, 12:09am » | |
Hmm. I'll have to read those rules more carefully when I get home tonight.
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infornography
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #10 on Jul 10, 2012, 5:08am » | |
Ok, now I'm really confused.
Nova, Maelstrom, Beam, and Focussed Warpfire are all Warpfire subtypes. There is absolutely no room for debate on this as they are called that explicitly in the warpfire section of the rulebook.
Nova and Maelstrom do explicitly exempt themselves from the rules regarding having to roll to hit the target.
Focussed Warpfire goes to reasonable lengths to specify where exemptions from status quo exist.
Beam does not, but it seems like they might have meant to. By the rules you are supposed to roll to hit the target. The target in this case is a point rather than a model. The Warpfire rules establish this possibility before the beam rules. They explicitly draw attention to it.
Nowhere in the beam rules does it say you are not supposed to roll to hit the target (in this case a point on the terrain). It seems bizzare to have to but there you have it.
Furthermore the Warpfire rules explictly state that the target (including just a point) has to be within line of sight, which seems to go counter to the intentions of the beam attack being able to hit models out of line of sight. If you have to target the far end point and the far end point has to be in LoS, then how would it be possible to hit models outside of LoS? Yet no specific permission is given to target a point outside of line of sight.
This seems like a RAI vs RAW snafu as an (admittedly very) rules lawyery reading of the specific phrasing states you must target a point within the beam's range and is within line of sight and you must roll to hit it.
*sigh* This needs to be FAQed. If for no other reason than to address the kind of rules lawyering this will allow. For now I will tentatively say that RAI is clear enough here that I would play it as beams do not roll to hit the .... target and can target a point outside of line of sight. I could not defend it based on RAW however.
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coredump
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #11 on Jul 10, 2012, 6:01am » | |
Your confusion is well warranted. I get the 'feeling' that nova and maelstron don't need to roll, and that beam does. But I can't prove any of those assertions, and could see GW going either way.
It also isnt' clear if a beam will affect flyers or not. (Many page discussions on many forums.)
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Aux:"Listen to Westrider like he's the Bible." Westrider: "That's not actually a bad comparison. I'm fallible, subject to human limitation, and often require interpretation " Jordan's choice: "So i have looked at every army out there but this is the only one with a carnifex so im picking it" Yori:Plastic gargoyles? Sorry, but the current world crisis is global warming, not hell freezing over. |
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #12 on Jul 10, 2012, 6:03am » | |
Jul 9, 2012, 8:20pm, insanious wrote:
1) It auto hits what every it touches
2) It can hit flyers, multiple at that
3) It is s6 so can pen av 11 and glance av12
4) Vs troops it halves their initiative and causes them to take dangerous terrain tests when moving aka. Pile in movements during assault.
5) Even broodlords can use it
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It effects a line ending with the caster (so you can't lay it at the most beneficial angle)
It will injure friendly models also
It is only S6 for one model, then S5, S4.....
Halving initiative is usually not helpful for out psykers,especially BLords
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Aux:"Listen to Westrider like he's the Bible." Westrider: "That's not actually a bad comparison. I'm fallible, subject to human limitation, and often require interpretation " Jordan's choice: "So i have looked at every army out there but this is the only one with a carnifex so im picking it" Yori:Plastic gargoyles? Sorry, but the current world crisis is global warming, not hell freezing over. |
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infornography
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #13 on Jul 10, 2012, 6:28am » | |
A 1/6 chance of glancing a storm raven. I don't think that is worth expending a psyker power. There are so many better ones. Granted it is one of the most likely things we can do to them, but it is still very unlikely to do anything.
Sending a flyrant to go vector strike it would be less of a waste of an action, and even that seems futile at best.
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insanious
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| | Re: Telekenesis. Am I missing something?
« Reply #14 on Jul 10, 2012, 10:35am » | |
Jul 10, 2012, 6:28am, infornography wrote:A 1/6 chance of glancing a storm raven. I don't think that is worth expending a psyker power. There are so many better ones. Granted it is one of the most likely things we can do to them, but it is still very unlikely to do anything.
Sending a flyrant to go vector strike it would be less of a waste of an action, and even that seems futile at best. |
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Depends on how many shots you get... in 1 FoC you can get 17 psychers. Meaning we can get 17 s6 auto hits out a turn. Ontop of our shooting and attacking, just saying.
I don't see a lot of alternatives when it comes to use trying to kill mass flyers.
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